In this episode we talk to Oklahoma State Senator Julia Kirt and Oklahoma State Representative Melissa Provenzano about why it is becoming harder and harder for people to engage in politics. Join us as we talk about why people are feeling disenfranchised and divided. How can we better navigate the process, skip the noise, and be more effective in our advocacy efforts?
Together, we dissect the urgency of empowering women in politics and how recent shifts like the overturning of Roe v. Wade are reshaping perceptions of governance and personal autonomy. Our dialogue traverses the landscape of political engagement, revealing the potency of personal narratives in bridging divides and the transformative impact that comes from stepping into the political arena.
About Guest Speakers
Senator Julia Kirt was elected to the Oklahoma State Senate in 2018 representing District 30 in northwest Oklahoma City. She is an experienced community leader who has led statewide arts and culture nonprofit organizations for 20 years. As a mom of two, Senator Kirt knows first-hand the value of the investments we make in public education and in an economy that provides opportunity for all families. Senator Kirt currently serves as a Co-Chair for the Mental Health Caucus. Her committee work is largely focused on the state’s finances and the rules by which our government operates, which allows her to work for an Oklahoma built on fairness, where each person and community has what they need to thrive.
Representative Melissa Provenzano is a lifelong Tulsa area native, married mom to two and stepmom to two. Elected in 2018 to represent District 79 in Tulsa, she worked as a public school teacher and principal who grew exasperated with cutting her budget every single year until she decided to run. As a legislator, Melissa continues to bring this same commitment and voice, focusing on common sense education policy and for the needs of families of Tulsa at the state capitol. She currently services as the Assistant Minority Leader for the Democratic Caucus, State Director for Women In Government (National), and co-chair of the Mental Health Caucus. She was recently named one of Journal Record's 50 Women Making a Difference and is most proud of her work increasing access to diagnostic mammograms, student loan transparency, getting rid of the state grocery tax and separating occupational licensure renewals from tax status.
If you enjoyed the episode share it with a friend and don't forget to leave us a review. If you are ready to take your career to the next level, apply to join our community of professional women, all eager to help you get there and stay there. Check out our VEST Membership and apply today! www.VESTHer.co
In this episode we talk to Oklahoma State Senator Julia Kirt and Oklahoma State Representative Melissa Provenzano about why it is becoming harder and harder for people to engage in politics. Join us as we talk about why people are feeling disenfranchised and divided. How can we better navigate the process, skip the noise, and be more effective in our advocacy efforts?
Together, we dissect the urgency of empowering women in politics and how recent shifts like the overturning of Roe v. Wade are reshaping perceptions of governance and personal autonomy. Our dialogue traverses the landscape of political engagement, revealing the potency of personal narratives in bridging divides and the transformative impact that comes from stepping into the political arena.
About Guest Speakers
Senator Julia Kirt was elected to the Oklahoma State Senate in 2018 representing District 30 in northwest Oklahoma City. She is an experienced community leader who has led statewide arts and culture nonprofit organizations for 20 years. As a mom of two, Senator Kirt knows first-hand the value of the investments we make in public education and in an economy that provides opportunity for all families. Senator Kirt currently serves as a Co-Chair for the Mental Health Caucus. Her committee work is largely focused on the state’s finances and the rules by which our government operates, which allows her to work for an Oklahoma built on fairness, where each person and community has what they need to thrive.
Representative Melissa Provenzano is a lifelong Tulsa area native, married mom to two and stepmom to two. Elected in 2018 to represent District 79 in Tulsa, she worked as a public school teacher and principal who grew exasperated with cutting her budget every single year until she decided to run. As a legislator, Melissa continues to bring this same commitment and voice, focusing on common sense education policy and for the needs of families of Tulsa at the state capitol. She currently services as the Assistant Minority Leader for the Democratic Caucus, State Director for Women In Government (National), and co-chair of the Mental Health Caucus. She was recently named one of Journal Record's 50 Women Making a Difference and is most proud of her work increasing access to diagnostic mammograms, student loan transparency, getting rid of the state grocery tax and separating occupational licensure renewals from tax status.
If you enjoyed the episode share it with a friend and don't forget to leave us a review. If you are ready to take your career to the next level, apply to join our community of professional women, all eager to help you get there and stay there. Check out our VEST Membership and apply today! www.VESTHer.co
Hey everyone, this is Erica Lucas, your host and founding member of Vest, an organization connecting women across industries, regions and career levels so that together we can expedite the pipeline of more women in positions of power and influence. Welcome to another episode of the Vestor Podcast, where we explore the invisible barriers holding women back in the workplace and share stories of women building power collectively.
Speaker 2:You know I felt overwhelmed and unable to engage when I got started. I was so aggravated and frustrated and annoyed. The things we were facing and how I thought decisions were being made that were impacting, you know, my kids, my neighborhoods, my family. Going out and talking to people I don't agree with actually galvanized me and changed my heart in a lot of ways.
Speaker 2:I lost a lot of my cynicism about politics when I was knocking doors for running for office, because you're talking to people at their home about their values, what they care about, and they don't fit into neat boxes. They cannot be flattened into red or blue. That's just not the case. People are very complex combination of histories, personal stories, experiences, values and connecting with people just broke down so much over that when I go knock doors it is such an antidote to the toxic politics stuff because you know people are worried about their kid, they're worried about their street, they're worried about you know there's very tangible things and we get so focused on these big political storylines instead of what real people need. So to me, getting involved actually helped my heart, it helped my optimism, it helped my resolve. In so many ways I am way less frustrated being in office than I was watching politics from the outside, than I was watching politics from the outside.
Speaker 3:I have a purple district. I'm the first Democrat to hold this particular district and every year it's been a 52 to 48% margin, and so this last cycle that meant 300 votes and when people feel like they don't make a difference, I'm like 300 votes is not much. Women feel the ones I speak with feel very ignored by state government. You know the Roe v Wade getting overturned. No matter how you feel about it, there's a definite vibe from Republican women, democrat women that feel that others are making decisions about their bodies, and I get all different flavors of opinion when I talk about it. But just listening and respecting is largely absent in today's culture and with the talking heads on television and you think that that must be the narrative. But really so many people just want us to come back to center.
Speaker 1:In this episode we talked to Oklahoma State Senator Julia Kirk and Oklahoma State Representative Melissa Provenzano about why it's becoming harder and harder for people to engage in politics. Join us as we talk about why people are feeling disenfranchised. Join us as we talk about why people are feeling disenfranchised. We also talk about how we can better navigate the process, skip the noise and be more effective in our advocacy efforts. To access our guest's full bio and show notes, go to wwwvestherco forward slash podcast. This episode is brought to you by Vestor Ventures, our venture capital arm investing in women-led companies, building solutions for the intersection of the care economy and future of work, and by our vast peer network, a network of professional women across industries, regions and career levels, helping each other navigate careers and working together to build a future of more inclusive workspaces. This conversation was part of a more intimate coaching session with Vest members and has been repurposed to accommodate this episode.
Speaker 2:Good morning, so glad to be here. Thanks y'all for having us. I've always wanted to come to a Vest meeting and I'm sad that you had to invite me to speak before I finally showed up. So I'll try to try to do better, but our schedules are a little wild. So I am a military kid.
Speaker 2:My dad was in the Air Force, my mom was a public school teacher and then actually went to seminary and became an Episcopal priest. So I lived about three places as a kid, but mostly rooted in Oklahoma, and I went away to college and when I came back for a few months to stay with my family, I fell in love with Oklahoma again and have been here ever since. And I ran artists organization for about 15 years, so working with artists across the state to try to help them thrive in our state, and called the Oklahoma visual arts coalition. We focused on grants, awards and helping people have the business skills and platform for their work that they wanted. That work really just made me deeply understand the potential of our state and how much creative potential is here and how much I want to see. You know, I've just never been someone who's satisfied with the status quo, so I want to see us do better. So over time, that became a care about advocacy and really caring about what influences the ability to be a small business person in Oklahoma, what influences what affects creativity, arts, education, how our kids encouraged or discouraged from their dreams and passions, and my desire for the state to be a whole lot more creative.
Speaker 2:Over time, that really came into me advocating for systems, and so that's how I ended up caring more about what the legislature was doing, and then also, at the same time, my two kids started going to our neighborhood Oklahoma City Public School and we had a great experience there, but budgets started getting cut literally my first year with kids in school had a great experience there, but budgets started getting cut literally my first year with kids in school, and so I got a lot more familiar with the levels of government that influence our public schools and, over time, started organizing other folks around speaking up to the legislature, which is, I think, what really hit me when, after the 2016 elections, I just had a deep feeling that I needed to be more involved and I got pushed that maybe I would run for office someday, and not a week later, my state senator told me that he was running to become the mayor of Oklahoma City, so I suddenly got to decide if I was ready to do that with two young children.
Speaker 2:So I was elected in 2018, ran for about a year and a half leading up to that, so, but really it was a combination of creatives in our state and public schools that pushed me into office.
Speaker 1:Representative Provenzano.
Speaker 3:Thank you, thank you for having me. I mean, how do I even match Senator Kurt, all of that? I'm impressed that I actually started. I'm living my whole life in Tulsa but love my city, love my city. And I became a teacher Will Rogers High School, tulsa Public Schools and taught biology for a long time to hormonal ninth graders. They're just right on the cusp of, oh, my goodness, that seventh hour after everybody's been outside and you have that lovely smell. But they were so awesome.
Speaker 3:And then I decided to become a principal and that was really a good fit, and ended up as a middle school principal in a Title I school in Tulsa. And man, those kids. It was fascinating because I had come from a real high-performing school as an assistant and I go to this really tough school and I'm looking at the teachers going. The quality is the same, they are just as good in both of these environments. This population has just dealt with a different set of issues and kind of just found my heart. And that's when I started, when the budgets started getting cut, and I ended up, you know, with these middle school kids who would stand in traffic for you once they know that you're going to show up every day for them and then to cut a budget, cut a budget, cut a budget, you know, cut curriculum, cut resource officers, cut assistant principals, until you're just like I can't do this anymore. And I did it for 10 years straight where I cut something.
Speaker 3:And then the teacher walkout happened and I came up and I met my representative, who was termed out and I thought and did not get the answers that I wanted, and so I decided to stick my toe in. I went to my husband. I'm like, okay, so here's the pay, and it's a bit less than what we can do, but I think we can do it. I feel called to do this. And so we just hit the ground running. And here I am six years later and education policy remains my foundation.
Speaker 3:But now, once you've done this a while, everybody sort of figures out oh, you know, we know that you're accessible and we have your number and we know your email address, and so now my plate is also full with you know the same kinds of issues that you see from public education.
Speaker 3:You know our systems have just been ignored for so long here in Tulsa that the same things that you see happening in education are happening in health and happening in criminal justice just do a serious lack of funding and lack of attention over time. So I spent a lot of time resolving constituent issues, and that's where pretty much all of my legislation comes from. You know, like the diagnostic mammogram bill that you referenced, I actually had a lady that I was knocking her door and she told me about the diagnostic mammogram she could not afford to pay for because her insurance you know the cost was going to be more than she could even bear with insurance, and so that's kind of been my focus, and who knows what bills I'll run next session as a result. So it's kind of enjoyable though.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you again for saying yes and for serving, and that's actually a great segue to my next question, which is what are some of the most critical issues? It seemed like every time I turn on the news, local news, there's something all of a sudden so fire. So just really curious to hear from you both as to what you consider to be the most critical issues that you're working on right now. We'll start with you, Representative Crowley-Sundon, then we'll go to Senator Crote.
Speaker 3:Oh goodness, I think front and center for me is our public education system. And Tulsa is personal because we had this, you know, threat of we're going to pull your accreditation and you know, and we're going to do all of these different things and it was, you know, very cavalier and it was very concerning and the entire Tulsa community was concerned and we actually plugged into the business community and said you know, do you understand what losing accreditation will look like for Tulsa? That means people lose their jobs, kids have to find new places to go to school. It just would upset the local economy, you know, not to mention just the chaos that ensued. And it's been quieted down for a bit.
Speaker 3:But, man, the business community engaged with us at that point and reached out to the governor and said we're very concerned, you know. And then things got much more calm and so we're hopeful that that continues and our superintendent does seem to be in support of Tulsa Public and the work that they're doing there. Bless the teachers and bless the superintendent. I'm just hopeful that that will last. But there's this sense of what's going to happen next that I'm always watchful for.
Speaker 1:Thank you, senator Kurt.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I always have a hard time with this because I think everything intersects and so I have a real hard time with separating out issues.
Speaker 2:But that's not the way it works up here. I was telling someone this morning who was very frustrated about the process and I said we don't like holistic thinking, we don't work that way in our policymaking up here. So it's very difficult if that's how you want to approach things. But I'll say fundamentally two biggest things I really spend time on. One is mental health. I mean I just recognize that our mental health and substance use disorder issues across the state. Access to appropriate care is one of the most critical issues and it's affecting all our other issues. It affects our family's well-being, it affects the workforce and employment, it affects incarceration, it affects homelessness, it affects many, many things, not to mention quality of life. So, mental health and substance use I'm really proud to have helped start the Mental Health Caucus, which is a way for the legislature to try to work better together and respond to those biggest needs. Because I do think we have a challenge around being holistic. In which case, how do you make sure the right ideas get moved forward, because there's a lot of different things you know, 2000 bills filed a year and how do we make sure the ones that move forward are the ones that really can make an impact? And so I think we're doing a better job, working with Healthy Minds Policy Initiative and others to identify those most impactful changes to make sure people have access to care.
Speaker 2:And then the other is housing. When I came in, this was a big concern of mine, but I very much thought, like what in the world can I do to help in this area? It's so overwhelming and, frankly, when you're in the minority, you have to be realistic about the things. You can't be involved with everything and you can't make change in every area. But over time it's just. We finally have caught fire a little bit. I think COVID made people more aware, even the business community aware, that housing is a real concern. Unfortunately, we haven't acted on making improvements in terms of access to affordable housing or our you know, rental availability or our eviction law in 40 years. So we have a lot of catching up to do, but I will say that at least people are finally fertile and willing to talk about the challenges and are seeing how that affects economic development, how that affects people's well-being.
Speaker 2:So I've been working a lot around landlord-tenant law and I'll tell you that frankly, that's not something that I wanted to work on, but it is absolutely necessary and nobody else wants to work on it, and so that's something that, frankly, in the minority party, sometimes that's what you got to do is take an issue that none of my friends are going to work on it, so I'm going to jump in and so I've had a lot of great angry landlord calls this year.
Speaker 2:But I think we have to change the way we talk about housing in this country profit from housing and how that affects our families because I think that's the big issue up here is how we balance personal rights and responsibilities with our societal needs and well-being Right, and that's not easy, it's not clear, but I think housing is one where we're clearly out of balance in terms of that and we have to find a new way. So I've been trying to talk about housing as a utility or as the kind of infrastructure that we all need, but that's not the way we've treated it in this country and the state, and I want to respect local issues. But anyway, point is is affordable housing, housing and how that affects homelessness, how that affects community stability those are big things I'm focused on.
Speaker 1:Thank you, senator Curt, and thank you for outlining the intersectionality between issues. When we talk about policies affecting entrepreneurs, the first thing everybody wants to address is access to capital. But I'm like you know all policy is entrepreneurship policy, because if we can't fix our health care access system, you know people are going to be worried about just access to help. They're not going to quit their jobs or start a new company because of the fear of missing that. You know the way our health care system is structured is very much dependent on employee employer based access. So, anyways, I love that you included that access. So, anyways, love that you included that comment. So thank you so much.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of apathy right now in the general public regarding politics. In fact, when we ask women, they often state I'm juggling so many things, you know I don't have really time to engage in politics. Another thing they've told us is I really don't trust politicians. There's too much divisiveness and hostility. The other reason why they say they don't engage is I already know how I'm going to vote, so I just don't. You know I don't need to engage and or my vote doesn't matter, my voice doesn't matter, particularly in states where you know they feel that they're the minority. So what do you have to say about that and how do you convince people, particularly women, to engage you?
Speaker 2:know I felt overwhelmed and unable to engage. When I got started. I was so aggravated and frustrated and annoyed. The things we were facing and how I thought decisions were being made that were impacting my kids, my neighborhoods, my family At when in that time, I was really focused on city council and school board really the areas of government that I focused on. But over time I realized so many of the decisions I cared about were being made at the state legislature. I got to say going out and talking to people I don't agree with actually galvanized me and changed my heart in a lot of ways.
Speaker 2:I lost a lot of my cynicism about politics when I was knocking doors for running for office, because you're talking to people at their home about their values, what they care about, and they don't fit into neat boxes. They cannot be flattened into red or blue. That's just not the case. People are very complex combination of histories, personal stories, experiences, values and connecting with people just broke down so much over that. And even now I mean I think Provenzano is the same when I go knock doors. It is such an antidote to the toxic politics stuff because you know people are worried about their kid, they're worried about their street they're worried about. You know, there's very tangible things and we get so focused on these big political storylines instead of what real people need. So, to me, getting involved actually helped my heart, it helped my optimism, it helped my resolve. In so many ways I am way less frustrated being in office than I was watching politics from the outside.
Speaker 3:I'll hop in and echo what I saw. Jessica just type in the thing. And I have a purple district. I'm the first Democrat to hold this particular district and every year it's been a 52 to 48 percent margin, and so this last cycle that meant 300 votes, and when people feel like they don't make a difference, I'm like 300 votes is not much. And so you know it's the sweat equity that you have to get out on the doors and knocking doors.
Speaker 3:And I'll echo what Senator Kurtz said, that to have those conversations, in particular with women, when you're at their door, they want to have a conversation.
Speaker 3:You know, if you're saying I don't have the time, it means I need more information. But I need to have a deep and wide conversation with you, versus just you know, here's a mailer and decide how you you, how you feel. But you know, I will tell you, women feel, the ones I speak with feel very ignored by, by state government. You know the Roe v Wade getting overturned, no matter how you feel about it, there's a definite, definite vibe from Republican women, democrat women that feel that that others are making decisions about their bodies, and so that's an easy talking point to pivot to to you know and and and I get all different flavors of opinion when I talk about it, but just listening and respecting is largely absent in in today's culture and with the talking heads on television and you think that that must be the narrative, but really so many people just want us to come back to center when you have those one-on-one conversations and us being willing to do that is the key piece.
Speaker 2:Can I respond a little bit more and just add to something I saw in the chat, which is I think some people worry, you know, does their voice matter in this process? And you know, like I saw one one comment of like I already know how I'm gonna vote. Right, you already know you're gonna vote, but it's so much more complex than that. Like every day, we decide where to put our attention, and constituent voices and community leaders are how we make that decision. I mean, I'll take anything that I have not already had on my radar as a priority issue. If a constituent raises it, I'm going to look into it and learn more, and we are flooded with issues that we can be engaged on and constituents absolutely drive that. I'll add to that.
Speaker 2:I think one of the things that exhausted me before and made me feel unable to participate was I was trying to watch all levels of government. I was trying to be really informed about federal. I was trying to be really informed about state, local. It's too much and you may be able to do that. Bravo to you if you're able to do that.
Speaker 2:For me it was not a healthy balance, so I'm very out of the loop on what's happening at the federal level. I cannot watch it and it makes me crazy because I'm able to have a vote here and I'm not. You know it's very difficult to make change at the federal level. But I also had to check out from being always engaged with city level stuff and school board level stuff, because it's just too much Like my brain can't handle it. I can't engage on all these issues. So I think it's about what is meaningful engagement to you, and I think sending an email here and there is probably not meaningful engagement. You know, whereas serving on a committee or being always, always, always connecting with other advocates and we'll talk about that more but those are the kinds of things that make a difference is being part of a movement or being part of a change that's bigger than just you. It's not all one way we really set this up, where it's like constituents talking to their elected officials, but it really should be reciprocal and there should be community connections too.
Speaker 3:I have to echo that. My inbox. Today I sit on the Administrative Rules Committee. I have gotten hundreds and hundreds and when it's from a constituent in my district because I always scroll to the bottom to see what their address is and if they're in my constituent then I definitely pay more attention. But the emails have gotten more personalized, which hooks me a little bit more. You know, here's my story. Here's why I ask, because so much of the email traffic is cut and paste and click to send. So it's evolving, I would say.
Speaker 1:You lead into my next question and I promise Vast members, we're going to get. I see already that we have a lot and we're going to get to your questions, but before we do that, we're talking about how overwhelming it can be. It really is a big challenge, right? That is a lot of times why people don't engage is because the process alone can be overwhelming. Do you have any other tips for, in addition to talking one-on-one, not focusing just on headlines but focusing on the actual issues and picking? You know where they're going to focus? Is there anything else that you want to share with us?
Speaker 3:I'll hop in. I mean so. It's overwhelming for us too, and especially during deadline weeks. This is one of our first deadline weeks and I can go from the time I wake to the time I go to sleep doing this job during especially during deadline week and during session, and just those brain breaks that I have to take where I put my phone in another room or I go on a walk or I you know, it actually prepares me to come back and dive right back in and be effective. I think you have to decide what matters most to you and target that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I, I like I would say, limit what you are going to engage on, because I think it could be so aggravating to have too many things you're trying to engage on, because I think it could be so aggravating to have too many things you're trying to engage on. And I mean my biggest recommendation is to connect with other people who care about the same issues. You know that could be your neighborhood, you know that could be your school, that could be an advocacy organization. Just, no one should go it alone because there are a few solo, you know super woman advocates up here, who? But they are here, but they burn themselves out too If they're up here trying to change the law by themselves and talk to every legislatoren. Example, which is when I was knocking doors, it was 788 was on the ballot, which is the medical marijuana measure, and I always asked for my list of voters to include people who just registered, because I love to talk to people who just registered. So I went to see a whole lot of people the week after the medical marijuana vote who were brand new registrants. They registered just for that state question and I had several tell me well, we're done, it passed. And I was like oh, oh no, you need to engage because all this has changed and I think they thought it was a yes or no vote. Now it's in. But since that time, just on that one state question, we've changed how the money flows, we've changed the definitions, we've changed everything about what that state question was. And so when you think about any given issue, if you focus in closely, that's fine, you can make a big difference engaging on that and that level of change.
Speaker 2:But I guess the point is it's not a one and done kind of situation. You have to. It has to be issues you care about. That you're willing to engage on over and over again. And I'll just add like you don't have to know the perfect solution either, like I think sometimes when I was outside the building and an advocate, I thought I needed to come in with all the answers for people. And you know, if you're Hunger Oklahoma, you might need to, because y'all are making specific proposals. But other folks, you can come in and tell your story and say I'm frustrated and the state is not helping with this. You know, sometimes that's the kind of change you need. And if you point out that it's intersectional, that's only. That's only fair Because, for instance, in our state, we overwhelmingly spend money on crisis instead of prevention. I think that's something you could raise across many, many issue areas, so it doesn't have to be like you don't have to have a strategic plan for the state, on whatever issue you're trying to prepare, in order to engage.
Speaker 1:You know, you touched on something that I think gets into this issue of engaging Right, and that is the environments in state like Oklahoma and, by the way, most, although most of our members are based in Oklahoma, when we're talking about our podcasts it's actually nationwide and I think we're seeing it nationwide, regardless whether we're talking about local, state or federal policies but it feels like the environment can seem hostile for a lot of people, particularly women, particularly people of color, the LGBTQ plus community.
Speaker 1:I don't want to put it on them because I feel like every time we are addressing issues, we always put it in the most marginalized community to kind of, you know, figure out how we overcome or how do we solve. So I want to put it back on us. How can we, what is our responsibility, to change or counter a lot of these false, negatives and hostile laws which make it harder for people to engage? But also, I mean, when we're talking about businesses, right, and wanting people to not just engage in politics but even stay in our state or recruit them to our state, it's really hard to do that when people don't feel safe or don't feel wanted in our state. So what do you have to say about that?
Speaker 2:I mean I just say it's so hard and I confirm that it's unacceptable. And I frequently see many of my constituents who don't feel safe and all I can do day to day is, you know, help them know that they're elected, official, listens and cares. And I mean last summer I carried a sign for pride that just said this legislator fights for your rights. And it was kind of cheesy in some ways. Like you know, I feel cheesy even saying it, but I mean people were feeling undermined and that was meaningful to people. I got a lot of applause and hugs and appreciation for that. So that's one thing. The other I would say don't give up.
Speaker 2:You know I think change is slow and we're hoping that this is the last gasp of certain patriarchal structures. Frankly, I don't mean to be overly grandiose about it, but you know there's a desperate need to hold on to control that's happening. Even, as you know, women in the legislature there's only. We're just a little over 20% of the legislature, so it's a very male dominated world. You know we still have to really angle to be taken seriously. I think we are, because we work in a bipartisan manner and they know we do our work, but there's still a lot of things you would expect happening up here, and I think there's a lot of fundamental disregard for the needs of people of color and for for women. So I think, just that consistency, the more of us that show up. They know they have to recognize and notice these issues. They know they have to recognize and notice these issues and so it's.
Speaker 2:It's a long-term, it's a it's. It's not a change that's going to happen overnight, because it absolutely does matter who runs for office. I've been watching Senator Michael Brooks Jimenez, whose personal goal has been to recruit and help elect more Latino, latino folks in Oklahoma, and you know that means he got one more person three years ago. Hey, that's a doubling of the number of Latino folks in the legislature. And while that's depressing in some ways, in other ways it's been great and huge. And you know, now there's a Latino caucus and he's helped recruit people for school board. So our school board at Oklahoma City Public Schools, which is majority Hispanic, now has two Latinas on the school board.
Speaker 2:That's difference, that's a difference and so I think that making those changes over time and I think that is our responsibility in office to bring people along with us as much as possible. So for me that's young people. I spent a lot of time trying to recruit young people that I don't think would would have a voice. I make a real big emphasis, my page program, like I don't want the student class president, I want kids that that might not have these opportunities otherwise. So that's where I start.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'd have to agree. I'm thinking about you know that, that sign, and then that I saw you walking within pride and I'm like how do I get one of those and got it printed and marched in the Tulsa Pride Parade in the hundred and fifteen degree heat but got so many hugs? But it's, it's so. I think it's important that we're willing to say the thing. You know if you know what I mean. And when next Benedict here on our side of the state passed away, it was a powerful moment of sorrow, but honestly, I took away just this emoticum of hope as well.
Speaker 3:I went to the Tulsa vigil and I was scheduled to speak, and so I called someone and said OK, what would you even want to hear from a legislator you know, for something like this?
Speaker 3:And so I got my remarks together and when I showed up there were well over a thousand people there at the Guthrie Green close to 1,500 easily.
Speaker 3:And I thought this is a moment that all of these families and friends and supporters are saying enough, and to be able to look around you and see how many other people are or have had enough and are there in support of this community was powerful. And since then I've seen so many more people willing to speak up in the Tulsa area and say this is not okay, just because you know you're not alone and we demonstrated it. And so I think you know attending events like that, being willing to say the hard thing, grows that effort. And I know that the Trans Advocacy Coalition in the Tulsa area their membership has just exploded, you know, and they're getting ready to have their. You know two or three more events that, and so you know visibility also brings a sense of fear as well, but they have good relationships formed with law enforcement where they know that they can be protected. You know in very precise ways when they go out and do what they do. So I think we're on the path, but you gotta be willing to talk about it.
Speaker 1:You touched on something, you know, when we launched Vest, actually a lot of the criticism came from women, right, saying that. Well, women, you know, when it comes to my career and navigating my career, oftentimes it's been women who've made it hard for me to achieve, and I think we need to recognize that right. I think we need to recognize it, but I also need to, I think we also need to look at it from a broader perspective. You mentioned this, senator Kurt. We live in a patriarchal society. We also, you know, when it comes to the workplace, it's been dominated by mental colleagues. It was created with a very unique persona that usually had a support system, and so all of the policies and how the workplace has evolved has served, continues to serve, primarily that one persona and as such, you know, it's created a lot of competitive, a competitive nature amongst women. It also isolates women and it also honestly causes us to assimilate rather than fix the systems or fix the workplaces.
Speaker 1:And I'm just curious if you've experienced that in your you know, as you serve, what is the environment like for you, particularly being in the minority party?
Speaker 1:And then I'm also going to attach another question to that, because I've been asked to to come and speak on policies that affect women, and after I speak, you know I'll get a lot of text messages, some from legislators who will say I agree with you 100%, but I can't say it out loud or I can't vote a certain way because of my constituents or because of my party, where my party's in, and stuff like that. I want to know the truth. I want to know is it really that hostile of an environment? Is there a balance between serving constituents and creating education among constituents and doing the right thing even though they may not think it's the right thing for their communities? I'll leave that for later, but right now let's focus on what is really the environment like for women, particularly women in the minority? And what would you say to your colleagues who continue to vote, oftentimes against ourselves, right, like in policies that actually hurt us more than they help us?
Speaker 2:I mean I'll hop in. I don't think it's that clear. I'll be curious what Rep Provenzano will say. But I think I faced less challenges being an older woman. When I started running I was like 44. My colleagues who were in their 20s or 30s faced unbelievable things while running and they were really disregarded and, I think, unusually sexist response to women candidates. I think because I was, you know, 20 years into my career and had a lot of. I don't know, maybe it's just different when you hit that edge. But so I didn't face people, didn't hit on me on the doors, I didn't get dismissed. People took me seriously. I know from many of my colleagues that when they started running, people dismissed them. You know I'll never forget representative Munson telling me about being dismissed and preparing me, you know, for people dismissing me and then it just didn't happen and I think that's just a privilege of age and and.
Speaker 2:But I will say that up here is very personal, very personal. Everything is very personal and you know, as much as I don't like that, I understand it. You know we are humans, we relationships mean everything, um and so um. I mean I was warned about this and I think I couldn't have done it when I was younger because I was way more of a protest on the corner type person. But I have to work really hard to break down stereotypes and build relationships with folks because I knew, coming in like I, I'm an educated urban vegetarian. You know there's all these things that are going to make me scary to a lot of my colleagues, and so I've worked really hard to be friendly and connect with people in a meaningful way.
Speaker 2:It is very personal, so I'll just tell you that folks want us to have almost like a debate competition. Sometimes I mean, I hear from people who wish that I'd said more or that we were making you know we were breaking them down more. There is a huge political capital cost for that and we have to decide do we want to be in the conversations? Are there things we can do behind closed doors? Are there? Is there harm reduction we can do and we can blow up relationships with one debate? We can, and it's unfortunate it actually is making my stomach turn right now talking about it, because it's a political reality, which is people have very thin skin and I'll say I think the men have thinner skin.
Speaker 2:They don't want to be criticized in public. They don't want to look bad or look like they're not doing the right thing. They still view themselves as having the right intentions. So it's very easy to offend and part of me of course wants to be like, oh, who cares? But the other part is we're in family with these folks for another potentially six years. It's like having step family or something Like you just can't change them.
Speaker 2:So I think caution is needed and I think that's part of the reason why Rep Provenzano has gotten such so much done I mean, I literally voted on at least two Provenzano bills yesterday on the Senate floor is because she's been judicious about issues she approaches and how you treat other people.
Speaker 2:So we have to we, we do have to be super careful, and I would say that there's I wish there was more of a collaborative expectation, but I will say that sometimes asking questions, even privately, is viewed as an attack when it should be. We're trying to make the best policy possible. So I both want to change that, but at the same time, the reality of it is am I going to be isolated and I'm just talking to myself, or am I going to be a part of the conversation? And so that's the calculus we're playing every day. It's painful sometimes. Sometimes I support things or don't debate things that I wish I could, but I also have to make those decisions every day what I think is going to be best for Oklahoma and for constituents. So I agonize over it. It's like a moral dilemma on the daily.
Speaker 3:I have to think back about when we were getting the Women's Caucus started, first meeting. Every single senator and representative that was a woman came to caucus and then there was a few less, and then there was a few less, and then there was a few less. Our Republican members were being pressured to not come and this was about three years ago and and oh you know, they're going to try and peel you off and do whatever it is we're doing in secret caucus or something like that. But but it was the start of something and we still have the Women's Caucus going on and we still have the Women's Caucus going on and we have a Democrat and a representative from the House and from the Senate that puts together things that the issues that matter to women. And you know, while some don't come, others do, others have come back and I think we're continuing to grow, but it still requires effort. We're continuing to grow, but it still requires effort. But there are things that matter to all women, irregardless that we find common ground within that caucus. For example, you know, getting insurance to pay for diagnostic mammograms. Every single woman, except for one through that caucus, signed on to that bill, got it across the line and several men, because they had mother, mothers and sisters and and cousins who had had breast cancer. You know it was. You know, and I'm like this is what we could do around an apolitical issue, except for blue cross and blue shield that didn't care for the bill. But they, they got over it and so I think the opportunity is there.
Speaker 3:But then, you know, pivoting to the thing about the competition that's so real, you know, between women. But at the same time, you know, I actually am thankful for our leadership now, because we have evolved into an intentional lifting of women up. You know, regardless, but it has to be on purpose that you focus and go. How do I lift her up and how do I elevate her voice in a meeting when you know a gentleman might say almost exactly the same thing? You know, five minutes later, you know, you pivot to go. Oh yeah, you know, shelley just said that a few minutes ago and I could not agree with her more, you know, and so we've pivoted to, you know, and if you notice, the caucus leaders for the Democrats are both women, and so you know, lifting those voices up has also started to evolve the way we talk.
Speaker 1:That's. That's fantastic to hear, and I do think we need to be intentional. I was not always this way, you know. I was guilty of being too focused on myself or, you know, whatever I was dealing with, to not think of the women next to me, so I'm glad to hear that that's happening. I want to open it up. There's a lot of questions. I'm going to ask the vast team to help me moderate. I know some of them have already been answered, so I don't you know. I want to get to the ones that maybe we have not heard. Jessica, at the beginning you said do either of you have thoughts on how we can work to get the legislature as a whole to think more holistically, and are there certain people that can be more effective in delivering that message?
Speaker 3:I think I'll just jump in and say, yes, we absolutely can. We also, at this point in time, have a changeover in the top leadership, have a changeover in the top leadership, and so we'll see. You know, in the House and in the Senate this next cycle there's a large number of people at the top that are coming out, and so I think we have to be ready to kind of press in to new leaders wanting to do things different and make their own mark and make sure women's issues are part of that in a more common sense way.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think it's going to have to be a demand of constituents in terms of holistic or intersectional thinking and because we don't have, you know, at the municipal level they have a planning department, they have people who are thinking this way, who are looking at demographics.
Speaker 2:We don't have that at the state level, which makes me just nuts. So really, in theory, the governor's kind of you know, vision or strategic plan for the organization, for the state, but they're, you know, they have no more than four years guaranteed, so it's not built in to our process and I think we need people pushing forward. I think about the difference that Potts Family Foundation made in terms of teaching legislators about adverse childhood experiences. I mean, when I came in, they were making a real push to make sure everybody was informed about ACEs and I think still are. But I mean, for me that was. I learned about ACEs from them because they cared to make us think holistically about trauma and understanding how that affects us for our whole lives, and so I think it can happen, but it takes intentional effort again.
Speaker 1:I'm going to mix one of Perrin's questions with. There's been a lot of policies that I think it's important for all of us to be aware. I know that again you share one about immigration, which obviously I'm also very much in tune with and passionate about, but others have shared other harmful legislation. One of Perrin's questions is how effective are kind of touched on this before but how effective are constituent emails and what's the best way to kind of address those issues?
Speaker 2:Number one in person. You know, if that's up, you do not have to come to the Capitol. If they have events in your district, go to the events. If a candidate ever knocks your door, do not let them leave that porch until you tell them what you care about. I can't tell you. I knocked 20,000 doors for my first election. I probably only had five or six people who really grilled me about specific things that they were concerned about. I mean, that's a very tiny percentage. So do not let them go without. Like campaign year, election year is the best year to be heard because they have to think about who they elect.
Speaker 2:The other recommendation is focus on your legislators. First, because I'm going to connect with. Another question that came in was do I talk to my people, even though I think they agree with me? Yes, because we need justification to stick our neck out all the time. So it helps if I can say oh, I've just been flooded with emails about that or I have constituents who care a whole lot about that. That helps me oppose my colleagues without taking as much heat, because I can say it's my district saying that. But in-person is best. Second would be phone. I know everyone hates phone, but phone is absolutely next. Email would be way below that, because it does look like copy-paste. A lot of the language ends up being the same and eyeball to eyeball changes the whole scenario. So I strongly recommend face-to-face.
Speaker 1:Perrin, turning it over to you.
Speaker 4:Thank you so much. This is so helpful and awesome, and I have probably too many things that I'm passionate about and care about. But, senator Kurt, you said that, okay, showing up in person is the best thing to do, but my and I feel like I'm decently informed, but I don't really know, like, do I just show up to the Capitol anytime and go and talk to my representative and senator? Are there like specific times that are good options for people?
Speaker 2:Yeah, great question. So all of us have either an executive assistant or a legislative assistant. You can call the office and ask we meet Monday through Thursday. There are times when you're not going to find us available because we all have caucus meetings and so the best way is to call ahead and ask. Even better, invite your legislator to coffee in the district, and they can do that on a Friday or on a weekend or the summer. You know, the less time sensitive it is, the easier it is to make that happen. If they won't do that, show up at their events. But yeah, call up here If you're going to just show up.
Speaker 2:It is an interruption culture. So I'm really a rule follower and so I hated coming up here if I didn't have appointments because I was like, oh, I don't want to interrupt. This is how this building works. And so if you come up here and you're a constituent, you go to your legislator's office, your senator or your house member, you ask the LA or EA if they're available. If they're not available, if they're in committee, to pull people off the floor. And I never in a million I'm such a it's such a like woman stereotype I never would have done that as an advocate, because I would have been like, oh I sure wouldn't want to trouble them. That's how this place works and that's sometimes the only chance you get to catch a minute face to face with someone. So if we're on the floor you can send in a slip for us to come out.
Speaker 2:Most people responsive to their constituents If they're not that's I mean, like Senator Hicks always tells about her senator during the teacher walkout would never meet with her, which is one of the reasons she ran for office and won. So if your person is not responsive, that tells you a lot. You can also go in pairs, like I really recommend go with a friend if it's an overwhelming thing to you or if you have other people so that they can listen and you can listen and you're not just. You don't have to be one-on-one. You can be in small groups and that's fine. But yeah, logistically you can call the office and get schedule information.
Speaker 1:I want to close with what are your three takeaways that you want Vest members to leave with today that are actually like things that we can actually do this week or next week.
Speaker 3:Gosh, I think honestly, do not be afraid. We are all just human beings up here and you are a human being. You are on our same level and so show up and hold us accountable, please, please. It's amazing how much a constituent, even one or two, that show up or call on the phone, can sway a vote on something you care about and that is your right to do so. You know, or you know showing up matters with regard to women, the importance of lifting other women up and and having hard, being willing to have hard conversations and not holding back. It's intimidating, but do it anyway. I think those would be my top two.
Speaker 2:I'll think of what they're going to hear in a minute Senator.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I just wanted to lift up just focusing on a change you want to see and connecting with other people who care about that issue closely and I know you know many of you already are. But you know many of you already are. But you know, focus that on something that you want to change. That can be a neighborhood thing, that could be a city thing, that could whatever it is, and connect with other people on it, because I just think being a solo advocate is no fun, it doesn't make change and you need other people you're along with. And then I agree I see that posts about Together Oklahoma, that I recommend them strongly for holistic thinking. If you're someone who wants more intersectional approaches to things, they're trying to look at things that way you do not have to agree with everything that a specific organization stands for to work with them on the issues you care about together.
Speaker 2:We have very unusual partnerships up here across the aisle, across issues no-transcript If you're not positive, what you want to participate in. Connect with these folks. I see some folks posting really great events. Focus on, I encourage you to focus on one level of government for a minute and not make yourself be aware of all you are not going to save the world tomorrow I know we all want to but focus on one level of government and really make your voice heard there. Focusing personally you having one small group or face to face conversation with a legislator could mean so much more than you emailing city council people, federal people and state people. So take that time, make that investment.
Speaker 2:And the other thing I'd recommend at that same level is, if you care about who's getting elected, get involved this year with candidates you believe in. So start now. Look up who's filed for whatever office you care about I, of course, care a lot about legislature and find a candidate you can believe in. Can you give them a little bit of time? Literally? My major volunteers gave me three hours a month. Those are big volunteers so you can make a real difference for a campaign for a woman or another person that you believe in this year.
Speaker 1:If you enjoyed this episode, share it with a friend and don't forget to leave us a review. And if you're ready to take your career to the next level, apply to join our community of professional women, all eager to help you get there and stay there. Go to wwwvestherco and apply today.