In our latest podcast episode, we talk to Nadya Okamoto, co-founder of August and Gen Z marketing expert, about how we can better understand, support, and leverage Gen Z in the workplace. Join us as we unravel the myths and misconceptions that often surround GenZ.
Nadya's fresh perspective comes from her own experiences and expertise in understanding Gen Z's mindset and motivations. Together, we challenge the stereotypes and preconceived notions about Gen Z's approach to work and explore the real-life dynamics of this tech-savvy and socially conscious generation. Tune in and gain valuable insights to bridge the generation gap in the modern work environment.
In this episode we deconstruct Gen Z's complex relationship with social media and their demand for transparency, accountability, and the value they place on human connection in a digitized world. We also delve into the hot topic of gender inclusivity from a Gen Z perspective, their professional expectations, and strategies to facilitate their career advancement. We also examine Gen Z's brand loyalty, the importance of brand representation, and its impact on their purchasing decisions.
Special thanks to VEST Member Perrin Clore Duncan for moderating the session.
Bios and show notes for both Nadya and Perrin can be found below.
This episode is sponsored by Audible ,the leading provider of audiobooks, podcasts, guided wellness programs, theatrical performances and more. They have over 1000 titles for you to choose from, including our Guest’s book - Period Power. Click on this link and get a 30 Day Free Trial plus a free credit to use on Nadya's book!
About Nadya Okamoto
Nadya Okamoto is the co-Founder of August, a lifestyle period brand, author of PERIOD POWER: a Manifesto for the Menstrual Movement, and former Executive Director of the nonprofit PERIOD. Nadya is also a social media creator with over 4m Tiktok followers and host of the podcast, Tigress. A Forbes 30 Under 30 honoree, Gen Z marketing expert and Harvard College recent graduate. Connect with Nadya on LinkedIn
About Perrin Clore Duncan
Perrin Clore Duncan works at the Arnall Family Foundation, where she focuses on criminal justice reform. Perrin is an advocate for inclusive collaboration as our communities collectively work to improve systemic challenges. Perrin graduated Cum Laude from DePauw University and has a Masters of Fine Arts from the Burren College of Art in Ireland. Her artwork has been shown in galleries nationally and internationally. Connect with Perrin on LinkedIn
Show Notes
Welcome to Your Bland New World, Nadya references this article to outline how easy it is to launch a new company in today's world.
Period Power, A Manifesto for the Menstrual Movement, Nadya's book.
If you enjoyed the episode share it with a friend and don't forget to leave us a review. If you are ready to take your career to the next level, apply to join our community of professional women, all eager to help you get there and stay there. Check out our VEST Membership and apply today! www.VESTHer.co
In our latest podcast episode, we talk to Nadya Okamoto, co-founder of August and Gen Z marketing expert, about how we can better understand, support, and leverage Gen Z in the workplace. Join us as we unravel the myths and misconceptions that often surround GenZ.
Nadya's fresh perspective comes from her own experiences and expertise in understanding Gen Z's mindset and motivations. Together, we challenge the stereotypes and preconceived notions about Gen Z's approach to work and explore the real-life dynamics of this tech-savvy and socially conscious generation. Tune in and gain valuable insights to bridge the generation gap in the modern work environment.
In this episode we deconstruct Gen Z's complex relationship with social media and their demand for transparency, accountability, and the value they place on human connection in a digitized world. We also delve into the hot topic of gender inclusivity from a Gen Z perspective, their professional expectations, and strategies to facilitate their career advancement. We also examine Gen Z's brand loyalty, the importance of brand representation, and its impact on their purchasing decisions.
Special thanks to VEST Member Perrin Clore Duncan for moderating the session.
Bios and show notes for both Nadya and Perrin can be found below.
This episode is sponsored by Audible ,the leading provider of audiobooks, podcasts, guided wellness programs, theatrical performances and more. They have over 1000 titles for you to choose from, including our Guest’s book - Period Power. Click on this link and get a 30 Day Free Trial plus a free credit to use on Nadya's book!
About Nadya Okamoto
Nadya Okamoto is the co-Founder of August, a lifestyle period brand, author of PERIOD POWER: a Manifesto for the Menstrual Movement, and former Executive Director of the nonprofit PERIOD. Nadya is also a social media creator with over 4m Tiktok followers and host of the podcast, Tigress. A Forbes 30 Under 30 honoree, Gen Z marketing expert and Harvard College recent graduate. Connect with Nadya on LinkedIn
About Perrin Clore Duncan
Perrin Clore Duncan works at the Arnall Family Foundation, where she focuses on criminal justice reform. Perrin is an advocate for inclusive collaboration as our communities collectively work to improve systemic challenges. Perrin graduated Cum Laude from DePauw University and has a Masters of Fine Arts from the Burren College of Art in Ireland. Her artwork has been shown in galleries nationally and internationally. Connect with Perrin on LinkedIn
Show Notes
Welcome to Your Bland New World, Nadya references this article to outline how easy it is to launch a new company in today's world.
Period Power, A Manifesto for the Menstrual Movement, Nadya's book.
If you enjoyed the episode share it with a friend and don't forget to leave us a review. If you are ready to take your career to the next level, apply to join our community of professional women, all eager to help you get there and stay there. Check out our VEST Membership and apply today! www.VESTHer.co
Hey everyone, this is Erica Lucas, your host and founding member of Vest, an organization connecting women across industries, regions and career levels so that together we can expedite the pipeline of more women in positions of power and influence. Welcome to another episode of the Vestor podcast, where we explore the investable barriers holding women back in the workplace and share stories of women building power collectively.
Speaker 2:There is this kind of cultural reckoning with capitalism and like patterns of white supremacy, which is, hey, capitalism values all of our worth in terms of our utility and our productivity, and where are the pain points in that and how do you know? I think kind of the business models like work smarter and not harder, right? So while others might see it as this sort of laziness, I think it's more like oh no, like let me take a step back and realize that like I can kind of work on the things that I'm passionate about. If I'm not passionate about it, like maybe I don't do it, because, like I can pursue the things I'm passionate about.
Speaker 2:Growing up in a hobby economy where there are ways to make cut, have like so many side gigs and create revenue for yourself with those side gigs, just growing up with that option. Alongside this, just kind of again reckoning with what is the worth of human time and human energy. Yeah, I think that's where the kind of the misconception lies of like, oh, they're lazy, they don't care, they don't want to work, but in reality I think it's like, well, the point of life isn't necessarily to work and why should I contribute my time to a system that isn't watching out for me or taking care of me.
Speaker 1:In this episode, we talked to Naria Okamoto, co-founder of August, creator with over 4 million followers, and GenC marketing expert, about how we can better understand, support and leverage GenC in the workplace. Naria's fresh perspective comes from her own experiences and expertise in understanding GenC's mindset and motivations. Together, we challenged the stereotypes and preconceived notions about GenC's approach to work and we explored the real life dynamics of this tech savvy and socially conscious generation. Special thanks to Vest member parent Claude Duncan for moderating the session. For Nadia's and parents' full bios and show notes, go to wwwvestherco. This episode is sponsored by Audible, the leading provider of audiobooks, podcasts, guided wellness programs, theatrical performances and more. They have over a thousand titles for you to choose from, including our guest book Period Power. Go to wwwaudibletrialcom. This recording was part of a more intimate coaching session with Vest members and has been repurposed to accommodate this episode.
Speaker 3:So it is a huge, massive. It gives me chills honor just to have you here today, nadia. I know the women on this call are super excited as well, and so if we can just jump right in and have you tell a little bit more about yourself, maybe what isn't in your bio or something that you wanted to expand on in your bio, your company and really just your experience being a Gen Z and marketing the Gen Z's.
Speaker 2:Yeah, hi everybody, I'm Nadia. I'm based in New York. Something not in my bio is that I'm also a dog mom and I'm definitely part of that wave of dog parents that completely humanizes their pets. And, yeah, I would consider myself a Gen Z elder because if you talk to any of my middle school team members or community members they definitely think of me as an elder and so, yeah, I would say that I'm excited to be here to talk just kind of entrepreneurial experience. I also think that something to bring up a lot is that Gen Z is only until like age 13 right now, so kind of the rising wave of when we talk about youth is now Gen Alpha.
Speaker 3:Which is so interesting. And Erica, whenever she reached out to me she was like, are you a Gen Z parent? And I was like, well, I'm not, but I'm on the cusp of kind of millennial Gen Z. I'm 28 years old and so it's funny how those are blocked off of, like here we are in this generation and then here's the next one. There's got to be some overlap, and I think that so much of what is talked about in the myths surrounding Gen Z culture I can relate to in some ways. I'm going to go through four myths and ask a question following the myth Nadia, and just hear your perspective on it. The first myth is that Gen Z is lazy and lacks work ethic. How does this stereotype overlook the unique qualities and contributions that you believe Gen Z brings to the workplace?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I would say that you know, obviously I'll answer these questions from like my own understanding, but I think you can't really make too many generalizations over like a whole very diverse generation, but so wanted to caveat all my answers with that. But I would say that Gen Z, sociologically, in terms of like trends of beliefs, I think that there's this attitude of expecting a certain amount of efficiency and ease because we've grown up with things like social media and tech enabled tools, or like even thinking about groceries I haven't actually gone to a grocery store in weeks because I can just get it delivered to my door, right so I think that there's this expectation of a certain level of ease when we've grown up with tools that have things delivered to our door, have next day delivery, is like a very realistic thing for kind of anything you would want in the world, and so I would say that's one part of it of kind of like frustration with things that don't move so quickly. I would also say there's this kind of kind of this wall that's been hit around not having faith in the systems that govern us to work properly right, like I think that it's. Some people might see it as like laziness, but I would actually recontextualize that as kind of this belief that the systems that are governing us or that we exist in are broken and it's you know, could be or could not be our job to fix them. And so I don't think that it's like an apathy that has them resigned to, just like accepting it. It's just recognizing like, oh, this situation is not working and I'm either going to choose to participate or not to participate.
Speaker 2:I think that that you see a lot of that kind of frustration in politics, in educational institutions, and I mean, even for me as someone who I would consider myself like politically engaged, as, like a young citizen, like I do not have a reaffirmed faith that, like the government is protecting my reproductive rights or something that I should like trust and be involved in, right, like I mean, I'm kind of the extreme event where, like I ran for public office in 2017. And rather that making me want to get more involved, it made me kind of say, actually, I don't think this is working and I need to figure out a different way to make change. And then I would say, on the work ethic side, I think it's a, it's definitely a mix, right, I think it's a mix of expecting that efficiency, not having so much patience for systems that aren't optimized. But I would also say there is this kind of cultural reckoning with capitalism and like patterns of white supremacy, which is, hey, capitalism values all of our worth in terms of our utility and our productivity, and where are the pain points in that? And how do you know?
Speaker 2:I think kind of the business motto is like work smarter and not harder, right?
Speaker 2:So while others might see it as this sort of laziness, I think it's more like oh no, like let me take a step back and realize that like I can kind of work on the things that I'm passionate about.
Speaker 2:If I'm not passionate about it, like maybe I don't do it because like I can pursue the things I'm passionate about. Growing up in a hobby economy where there are ways to make, have like so many side gigs and create revenue for yourself with those side gigs, I think like kind of the hobby economy is made possible by growing up with things like TaskRabbit and, you know, uber driving and like these various things that you can kind of make money to be able to do the things that you really like to do. And I think, just growing up with that option alongside this, just re-end the kind of again reckoning with what is the worth of human time and human energy. Yeah, I think that's where the kind of the misconception lies of like, oh, they're lazy, they don't care, they don't want to work, but in reality I think it's like well, the point of life isn't necessarily to work, and why should I contribute my time to a system that isn't watching out for me or taking care of me?
Speaker 3:Yes, and that's something that I think is so difficult to deal with, because you're battling this mindset and this culture that has existed and persisted for so long, and I feel you know not just Gen Z, but anyone who values the fact that life isn't just about work and looks at ways to create value and a means for living in different ways and strategizes. It's funny that we call it lazy when it's actually just being creative to allow for a life that's more beautiful. So thank you for those answers, nadia, and the next question or myth that we're sort of unpacking is that Gen Z is overly dependent on technology and lacks face-to-face communication skills. And, in your experience, how does technology actually empower Gen Z in the workplace and how do they navigate the balance between virtual and in-person interactions?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would say like I think that I'll first and foremost say, like every single day, the more and more I talk to like my peers and people who are younger than me, it just reaffirms that like Gen Z is like a walking contradiction, slash, paradox on all things right. It's this, like I feel the tension of fuck social media. It's like been the bane of my existence and the cause of so many insecurities and mental health problems that I have. It's absolutely addictive. But also social media has enabled literally everything in my life. It's where I've met all my friends. It's probably how y'all have heard you know if you know about me or of my work, have heard it. It has made me financially independent since I was 12 years old. It's the way my sister is putting herself through college. It's the way that I found community beyond, like in the times when I felt the most alone. And I would say that, like so much of my activism, especially in politics, actually has been made possible by social media and the technology that we have right, and so I also I think it's really interesting when that documentary, the social network, came out and there was kind of this like Gen X, gen Y oh my gosh, what's happening with our data and the algorithm is like manipulating us, when for me, it's like, and a lot of my peers, I think, we watch it and we're like, okay, yeah, like we know, right, data privacy is not something that we're concerned about, because we've never expected data privacy, you know, and I think that I think that that's been honestly like a huge part of what we've been, you know, thinking about a lot, and so I would say that you know, technology, again, it is a central part of my life.
Speaker 2:It is something where, like this is the way we communicate and I would say, for me, as a Gen Z elder, my interactions with social media also is so different than, like, my sister. My sister is five years younger than me. She does not use iMessage. She only uses Snapchat in replacing text, right, like, she doesn't use. Like she doesn't use like you know, in general, like find my friends on iPhone. She uses SnapMaps, right, and so for me, she always makes fun of me for being like, much older because, like, I use iMessage, right, and so I think that even in the way that we think about there is no expectation for data privacy.
Speaker 2:There is not really a concern for it, I think for the most part because that is something that, like, we've grown up with and the benefits that it has brought to our lives are probably very much exceed the things that are harsher. But I would say, you know, it does it negatively and have negative impacts Absolutely. Is there a lack of accountability in some of the ways that it's encroaching on our lives? Absolutely, and so I think that there's definitely a lot of growing edges to work through.
Speaker 2:But, again, it's enabled so much of our lives and, like I don't see a world in which, like we get rid of it right, like I mean, even with the discussions around banning TikTok, I don't think that's going to happen, given that there's way too much money in it for American corporations and, like the creator economy. But also, if you get rid of TikTok, it just like it met us right there trying to compete with Instagram Reels, so is Google with YouTube Shorts, snapchat has spotlight. It's purely not a situation where we're toning down data protection or anything like that. If anything, banning something like TikTok will just open the door in space for another algorithm to kind of take over lives, and it's very much because we do live in the time of an attention economy.
Speaker 3:Thanks so much for sharing that perspective and it's so interesting hearing you know. Even just the difference between your younger sister and Snapchat is so hilarious to me, because I feel like Snapchat was something that I used in high school and then I kind of became obsolete for me and I don't really know why. Sometime in college I just stopped using it. But the fact that the younger generation that's what they use instead of iMessage is super fascinating. One thing that I just want to ask as a follow-up, nadia, to that is do you ever feel like you feel a sense that generations younger than us will lose the ability to have really meaningful in-person, face-to-face interactions and they'll rely solely on social media and in virtual interactions to facilitate community?
Speaker 2:I'm sorry. Do you mean like, do I think they will ever move away from it? Or kind of schools on community building?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, I think and sorry the way I phrase that question is a little bit confusing, but I think my fear is that people will no longer be interested in face-to-face interactions and they'll only resort to interactions online. But I'm just curious what your perspective is on that. Do you think that we're moving towards communities that will be really centralized and focused in the virtual realm, or do you think there will still always be place for authentic face-to-face?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I have kind of an interesting take on this because I actually would say and again, I am not like a sociological academic, this is just purely from my own kind of my own theories of it I think that there's actually more of an emphasis on community and in person, because we live in such a digital world. So, like I mean, I'm sure you've seen like the big hot new buzzword in the marketing world has been like community. Right In August, very much like we raised $2 million of a pre seed round, pre launch, pre product, because we said, hey, we have this authentic Gen Z community that we built on this new app called Geneva, which is like Slack for Gen Z. But like there are all these community oriented consumer social apps that are being funded with the intention of we are creating real community spaces in a very digital world where people are becoming more and more isolated. And so I would say that, in response to the pandemic and to social media, like, as it fosters this online sense of community, it heightens this level of like digital, like real, realistic isolation. And so I think that, even in the world of like funding consumer social, a lot of what you're seeing the trends of is investing in groups that are all about or startups that are all about like more in person community, like more small community conversations.
Speaker 2:And I was actually just talking about this like with an investor of mine where, like, she was asking like what happens to live theater right now and I was like, well, actually, I think that TikTok and social media has completely enabled like the resurgence of fandom around Broadway, right, like this is where Broadway music has become like something you see on video and something that people are talking about a lot more than they were before.
Speaker 2:But also it puts like a higher value on seeing in person, because, like it's kind of the scarcity over, like it feels more rare, and so I would say that, like that, in conjunction with like even if you see, like the emphasis on like experiential things and all of that, I think it has kind of put a larger value on it. But it's definitely a pendulum right, which is that we definitely like don't expect in person as much as possible, as much. But I also think that to me, I'm thankful for it, because the whole like oh, this meeting could have been an email Now it's like, oh, this meeting could have been like a zoom call you know, and so I think that it's just like a again, like a different expectation of efficiency.
Speaker 3:Awesome, thank you. So the next question, or myth, is that Gen Z has a short attention span and is easily distracted at work. How do you believe that Gen Z's ability to multitask and consume information quickly actually benefits organizations, and how can employers leverage that skill?
Speaker 2:This is a great question, one I love chatting about. So, yeah, I mean, I wouldn't say it's a myth that the attention span is small, like that is like data driven, like fact that the attention span of like Gen Z as a whole is like, I think, on average eight seconds, which is shorter than a literal goldfish. So I would say that it's that that's not necessarily a myth. I think that I would rather use the word like misunderstanding of how you interpret that fact, right, like, to me, attention span is not like attention span is eight, like eight seconds. Taking that number of like how long I'm going to potentially like offer my evaluation of whether or not something is worth my time, right? So, rather than thinking, oh so these people, like this generation, can only focus on one thing for like eight seconds at a time, I think it's more so, like you have eight seconds Eight seconds is a lot to convince me that what you're trying to get me to think about or do is worth my time. And justify that right, because, think about it, like we're also the generation that will sit down and wait in hours and hours and hours of a line for, like a new shoe drop. Right, we're also going to sit down and like watch 12 hours of TV and binge watch Netflix for like days in a row and or even from like an attention span thing. Like people will spend hours on TikTok, which is one platform, however, the speed at which it moves and I think, like the evaluation of what I'm going to watch, that's where it's like eight seconds to convince me that it's worth it. Right, it's the same thing as, like if you think about scrolling like we've grown up on these platforms where you're scrolling, right so if I scroll within two seconds, I'm like boring, go boring, boring, until I see something that's like kind of eye-gatching and then I'll watch the whole thing. Right, I think Netflix, too, like we've grown up with these with, by the way, not just one so many streaming services, each of which are completely oversaturated with content, and so I think it's more so like living in an attention economy.
Speaker 2:I have more than enough options, and so the kind of like the need to engage or kind of keep engaged is like at a higher level of expectation. I think how this comes to life in the workplace is very much also like there is a higher level of expectation on like wanting to do work that you can justify, either in advancing your career or like something you're genuinely interested in, right. And so I think that that's where some of the discussion around, like you know, a lot of people say, like the administrative work and all of these things, it's not that Gen Z won't do it, but I think that there's this kind of expectation that, like, I am understanding that I am doing this work that I might not like doing because I can justify the end goal of it, but I need to understand that end goal. So how I think of this in our workplaces, like you know, even with August says, we hire a lot of Gen Z, right, like I am 25, I'm not the youngest on the team, but it's just like there's kind of a deeper need for transparency so that obviously, people aren't going to always love the work that they're doing.
Speaker 2:There are a lot of administrative tasks that more so like junior team members will be doing, but a lot of that I think you keep people engaged by saying the reason you're doing this work is not just because of, like, what you're trying to achieve, but how it levels up to the larger picture of what we're trying to work on, right, and I think that that's. That is a new Gen Z expectation, and I think that there's this intergenerational like tension, sometimes in workplaces that I've seen like even in my prior consulting work around, like you know, this Gen Z expectation that not everybody thinks is, you know, deserved or valid, around wanting to, wanting more business transparency, I think is the best way to put it of like wanting more understanding of like the larger business picture beyond, just like why am I putting things in an envelope to send out? Like needing to understand, like how that levels up into the larger impact.
Speaker 3:Well and Naughty, the panel that you did recently for Fortune. I think, yes, I think so. Yes, I'm like I don't want to say it wrong, but you talked about how you all intentionally set up time. I think you're calling the heart checks. I love that because I feel that that can help untap potential of any individual if they feel seen and understood, and so would you just talk a little bit about that as well?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I would say that heart checks are something that we implemented super early on in the company and I think a lot of it is that kind of what we were talking about around the trend of expecting a higher level of transparency. I would say, right up there is like accountability, right. I think that we've always, historically, in large workplaces, have like HR or methods where people can give feedback, but I think that what we really saw honestly in 2020, especially in the world of corporate responsibility, was this accountability of like people feeling not heard, whether it be around social issues or any just like kind of trials and tribulations of capitalism, right. And so I think that a lot of it is saying like, hey, we're investing time, we don't owe you feedback, but we're giving you feedback and we deserve to have options to hold you accountable, and like we want to see those changes. And I think that kind of in response to that need for a higher level of accountability and transparency was this oh shit, we need to create like intentional time where we're just like really thinking critically about that feedback, that we can really show up with action steps and like they know that we really value that feedback and that like we will act on it and we take it very seriously.
Speaker 2:But I think also like knowing that for a lot of our team members, this is their first job out of college understanding, like, what are hierarchical structures of power and reporting, right.
Speaker 2:And so I think that it can be really intimidating to receive even like an employment contract with a bunch of legal jargon you've never heard of before, and so just trying to create space where they can ask and talk about uncomfortable things, right, like I'm from an Asian household that grew up with financial instability, talking about money is very uncomfortable.
Speaker 2:Now imagine someone who's like that but then hasn't grown up in a business space. This is their first job. Talking about money and equity and trying to understand stock options can be very, you know, confusing, and so I think a lot of the goal of heart checks was like, how do we bring that level of transparency to say, like, what are the questions that you haven't answered? What are the things you want to give feedback on and what are the things you need to see more accountability on? And what questions you have in terms of salary, compensation, like structure, you know, ownership of workflows, even your contract, like anything. What are the things that you have questions on that, you might be uncomfortable to ask in like a larger setting, but like really, really intentionally creating space for those.
Speaker 3:Thanks so much, nodia. Yeah, I think sometimes it's just giving people permission to speak about things that they're not sure if they can talk about. You know and I feel like I would love to be a part of fostering workplaces that we can talk about virtually anything that relates to our work, especially when it relates so heavily to our work. That kind of goes straight into the next myth or misconception about Gen Z, in that it is only motivated by financial reward and lax loyalty to employers. How do you feel like Gen Z hungers for new expectations to help improve ways of evolving the workplace to benefit not just women but everyone? And, yeah, kind of unpack that misconception for us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that a lot of it is, you know. Yeah, I saw one of the questions I'll contextualize this also in answering one of the questions in the chat which is around like this generation being like overly sensitive and all these things. I think it comes back to, like, the expectation of like we deserve and should have always deserved as people like more flexibility, and I think that we are a burnt out global community, like you know. I think that it is realizing that the politics, the business, these structures living in these systems is harmful and that, like we, it is very personal too, right, and so I think that a lot of the expectation to see more transparency, to see more change in these structures is honestly due to, I think, the, I think to kind of hitting this brink as a society of burnout and harm that has been done that needs to be rectified as a really big part of it.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much, and that kind of reminds me. Going back to earlier, nadia, you mentioned that you ran for political office. First of all, thank you for choosing to do that. Someone recently said like we need to ask women to run because sometimes people just aren't asked or encouraged, and I feel that balance and challenge of how can I create the most change or the change that I want to see. Sometimes it's not going to look like participating in the traditional systems, but at the same time we need thought leaders like you to go in and lead and switch up some of the mindsets that we've just allowed to exist, that continue to cause harm in our communities. So pretty soon we're gonna open up to additional questions from the audience.
Speaker 3:But one other thing, nadia, that I would love to hear your perspective on, and this is not necessarily just for Gen Z, but I think there's a challenge that we have, often a social, cultural challenge, as language shifts and inclusive language shifts, and I was reading an article that you've probably seen about you from the New York Post that talks about how you're using administrators instead of women and that's totally excluding your target audience. And I feel and a woman wrote that article and in my mind she kind of explains in an article that she feels you dehumanized the people that your products are benefiting. But in my mind and I think probably you're humanizing the fact that not just people who identify as women, men, straight, and so anyway, I just would love to hear your perspective on how you handle and think about how language is constantly shifting and how do you meet people where they're at and really just continue to encourage greater inclusivity in the way we talk and think.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, okay. So I get a lot of backlash I think the most from other cis women when I try to push for gender inclusivity in the period space. I think it's typical I don't know if you guys have heard like the term terfs, but it's like you know, just very transphobic, trans, exclusive people who consider themselves feminist, and I think that you know, I think to me, I find the backlash very, I find it very motivating because to me it's just like further proof that we have so much more work to do. I think that you probably see the same understanding around, like the Black Lives Matter conversation, where there's this misunderstanding that, like being more inclusive creates is like taking away space for like an existing community that's already included. I think that kind of scarcity mindset is like very capitalism based, which is like, oh, there's only so much space for people to have like basic rights. So like if a marginalized community gets more rights, it's taking away from existing rights rather than thinking, no, we're just elevating the expectation for everybody. And so I think where that comes from is this belief that like, oh, on one side, let's not use gender inclusive language because by saying trans men can menstruate, you're taking away the empowerment that cis women can feel because they menstruate, which is just like not true at all. Right, like we would all.
Speaker 2:Honestly, I think cis women would benefit the most from separating womanhood from menstruation, because it means that we're more than just you know birthing bodies. And I also think that, like there's this misunderstanding that like I'm not calling someone a menstruator because they're like a terminator and they're only like robot, robotic purposes to have a period, which is where I think, like some of these, like journalists, like Fox News, will be like, oh, they're like simplifying womanhood to like having a period like no menstruator just became this nickname that like kind of this space and this movement has been using. Because, like, what better fun term is there to have a gender inclusive word that can encapsulate the experience of having a period, while also recognizing that people who menstruate aren't always women, right, they might identify as non-binary or trans and actually it is rather harmful to tell, like a 12 year old girl once they get a period oh now you're a woman, right, because it literally contextualizes the ability to give birth as like the single chain for womanhood. And I think that that's where there's a lot of misunderstanding and there's a lot of personal feelings and backlash. And it's really interesting because, like you know, there are these.
Speaker 2:You know, again the misconception around Gen Z being like overly sensitive, like talk about overly sensitive is like, honestly, like the Gen X TERFs out there who like find it so fucking triggering when you use gender inclusive or like inclusive language in general, and so I think that, like a lot of what the pushback like it doesn't, that kind of pushback doesn't get to me because it just like to me, it makes me feel like, oh, you know, like we're really hitting a nerve, like we're making change, because people who never encountered the idea of gender inclusivity or gender fluidity are finally hearing this conversation and like that's what needs to happen.
Speaker 3:I love that and and I love how you can just take it with a sense of humor to you, because sometimes it's it's just not worth getting upset about things, like people are going to be where they're at and I want to give time for some of the great questions that have been popped into the chat. And Kristen, I know you had to just come up and I'm not sure if you wanted to come off the mute and ask them. Hi.
Speaker 4:Nadia. I'm in San Francisco, originally from Oklahoma, which is why I'm here and I work with companies as a consultant founder CEOs and I found some of them. They're usually like series CDE, sometimes after going public but I found myself wondering I the stereotype is, gen Z love starting companies, right.
Speaker 4:But for companies that want to recruit Gen Z that have already been around for four or five years already have 50 hundred employees, what draws them to work for one company over another? And also what would, what would motivate them to stay? And then I have a personal question as the mother of a 20 year old son what makes an older person interesting to a Gen Z?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Um, you know, I would say that, uh, I think that in many ways, it kind of goes back to this paradox, right, which is like I wouldn't even say Gen Z, like starting companies. I just think it's like we finally have the tools to be able to do so, right, like when you think about what it takes to run, for example, like start a CPG brand. It's like marketing, and how do you run strong digital awareness? Like, who better to do that than people who grown up on social media, where it's second nature to us? So it would, rather than saying like, yeah, so that's a copy of that. But I would also say like, again, walking paradox, right, we've grown up in stable times, we like trying new things, we love innovation, but we also it also means we very much value stability, right, and we very much value, like in a time when there are these giant tech layoffs, like there is more of an appeal, I think, for a lot of my friends who, like, have done startups for the last five years. They're going back into corporate because they kind of want to chill and work a job that they have very much job security in, and I would say that, in terms of what entices them to say is really that transparency, accountability and, like, professional development standpoint, right, I think more than ever before, there's this kind of thinking of like okay, I'm doing this now, but where is this taking me? And like wanting a clear path of what it takes to get there. But I think that accountability is huge. I think we saw this honestly, even like for my friends who are, you know, at Goldman Sachs, who are finally talking about, like the inhumane hours that they work there as an associate investment bankers, right, I think that there's like those hours have always been there, that work culture has always been there, and I think that's kind of this reckoning of like. But it shouldn't be like that. How do we build accountability? And the way that that company can like kind of push out, you know, initiatives or retention is, honestly, to just act on that feedback right and like be accountable to that as well.
Speaker 2:In terms of like, I think what makes Gen X interesting is, I mean, I think Gen X is the most interesting because the things that we're dealing with right now, both from like a social perspective and otherwise, are like, or the things that we learned about in class are things that, like, gen X has experienced, right Like if you think about Black Lives Matter and the conversations around racial justice. Right Like talking about the civil rights movement, like that's not that long ago, you know. And even where we're talking about like stop Asian hate and all this, like AAPI inclusion, a lot of it was going back to like Japanese internment, which also was not that long ago. Right Like you know, chinese Exclusion Act like my grandparents were affected by that.
Speaker 2:And I think that a lot of the things that we're looking at right now, whether it be around like geopolitics or even around digital and like how things are innovating, right Like I think the massive cultural shift we're seeing now with the introduction of generative AI, is like kind of similar to like the crazy change of when, like email was introduced and text was introduced, and so I actually think that there is this kind of like things that we're grappling with like that are not new or I wouldn't say they are new, no, no, they are really not new Like these cultural changes, like they've happened before time and time again, and I think that kind of there is an interest and curiosity in like how you know, the people before us have dealt with it and otherwise, and I would also say like it's a curiosity to learn, right, I think, especially around gender.
Speaker 2:Like it is very hard for, I think, many generations before us to understand that gender is a social construct and like to understand like even my mom, who's like a DEI consultant like we still have to like explain certain nuances around talking and respecting and creating space for transness, and I think that when there's this, when there's expressed curiosity and interest to learn, like we have nothing but like interest to share and talk about that, and I think Jenzie also loves to hear ourselves talk, and so I think that that's it. That definitely is a huge part of it as well.
Speaker 6:Thank you.
Speaker 3:Awesome. Thanks so much for those questions, Kristin. Does anyone else feel free to raise your hand if you have another question?
Speaker 5:I know Ashley had one in the chat. It was around the topic of she would like to learn how to best support Jenzie to help reduce barriers to success. So what can she do as a business owner to amplify Jenzie years who are trying to showcase their skills?
Speaker 2:I would say that I mean going back to like uplifting and, like you know, I think we hear a lot of the term like of putting your money where your math is, which is like like that. My biggest pet peeve is when, like business leaders or like public figures will be like Gen Z is going to save the world but then, like nowhere in their actual work, is like initiatives to invest in and support Gen Z and stay accountable to that, and so I think that kind of that theme of accountability comes up a lot around. Like you know, regardless of what business you're in, if you care about like cultivating, you know, professional development and leadership, like what does that actually look like in terms of like how your time and resources and energy is allocated?
Speaker 6:So my question is around. I currently have a Gen Z working for me and first things first I hired her so I kind of knew what I was getting into with this. And then getting to know her and seeing how she works, some of my staff members and higher ups don't understand her because they haven't taken the time to get to know her, and so I'm often asked about. You know why she always on her phone. You know she doesn't seem capable of completing a job. She always seems to be out of touch or not communicating as much, and so while I'm consistently working to develop her and help her navigate the true professional world Sometimes it's a sticking point for me but it really is a sticking point for others how can I continue to help her understand? I'm not necessarily losing who she is, but in some sense, when you're in a professional world, how do you sort of change to navigate while also helping others seeing you as capable?
Speaker 2:So I think this is where representation really matters, which is that like I think part of it is again, there are a lot of downfalls and risks with social media and how much technology has taken over our lives, but in many ways, I think a lot of it is like. This is where I think the importance of having role models and representation to see what happens when, like examples of like when you do lose trust through yourself, but also examples of like what is it? What does it look like when you really understand your potential? And like what does it mean to like, look at what your potential could be and explore what, how you could shape, shift that to what you're interested in and like what does it take to get there?
Speaker 2:I think that that's where like exposure to and I think this is why, like, I'm so passionate about positive media and like creating those ways of exposing representation of like.
Speaker 2:I mean even thinking about this right, like this conversation, which is like like what does it look like to see in the future when there's like someone who could be seen as a role model or something like everybody brings like a few Gen Z mentees that they have, so that they also have this sort of exposure, and I think that that kind of collective learning and like including people at the table when for for these kind of conversations is really important, right.
Speaker 2:I think that like one of the things I love doing whenever I'm like invited to do consulting or like speaking on Gen Z trends is like, yes, and I will bring a high student that I work with and a middle schooler so you can really see, like how different we are and like so it's not just about me, but it's like it's really like exposing opportunities for those Gen Z team members and I think that like that kind of empowerment, but also, like for middle school team members, like they love the opportunities that August gives, because it's kind of like their first foray into feeling like, wow, I can do a lot, like I have a lot of potential. I look at what I can do with these opportunities and it kind of becomes something that increases their energy and their excitement and motivation around it.
Speaker 3:I love that.
Speaker 3:And, judy, to your point too, I think that that you know the questions about why are they always on their phone.
Speaker 3:I've heard that from, actually, in a recent conversation with someone I love who is an employer and from a generation older than me, he was explaining how much frustration he feels about one of his employees who's always on their phone and I'm like, well, I'm, I'm on my phone a lot too, but my work's on my phone as well, and I think that part of it is just getting to that understanding and understanding. Nadia, I love how you're like bring him in, you know, bring him into the conversation, just so that we can all feel like things are as fair as they can be. You know, because I think in some people's mind it's like I'm not on my phone playing with a key crash or whatever. You know, I'm actually working, I'm typing, and it's like, well, actually I'm, I'm emailing people back and forth on my phone and coordinating things and, you know, texting a partner or whatever, and so I feel, yeah, thank you so much for that perspective. I think we might have time for a couple more questions. Oh, courtney has her hand raised.
Speaker 7:Yeah, I would love to ask a question, nadia, about brand which, by the way, you've just knocked out of the park completely, but I think for Gen Z obviously, like brand goes so much deeper. So I'd love to hear, like your thoughts on what role does brand kind of representation play in shaping the loyalty and purchase purchasing decisions of Gen Z, particularly beyond those superficial kind of design elements, but also in terms of, like, shared values, impact initiatives and social consciousness. Would love your thoughts on that. But again, just to clarify, I'm on the site now ordering and you, like, knocked it out of the park in both regards, but would love, love to hear your thoughts on brand and the importance there for Gen Z.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I would say, like more than ever before, it is easy to start a consumer product brand right like, with the availability of like Alibaba, it like you literally could create a brand, white label of product, put a new packaging on it. And one of my favorite business articles of like all time is this Bloomberg article called the bland new world, and it's kind of calling out how there's this wave of products where it's like Okay, here's like literally the direct consumer playbook find product, find cheapest option of, find fulfillment center. You do a two syllable name, have like white, clean packaging with a couple color, right, and so I think that's where, in a world where it is so oversaturated with consumer products and commodities and so much brand is like literally the thing that cannot be replicated is like unique and soulful, right, like. Can there be another product that sells exactly what August sells? Yes, but is there another brand that is like can be truly authentic and unique in our brand values? No, like that.
Speaker 2:To me, that's where brand is so important. I think that we see this a lot just in like the turnover of, like what the hot new fashion brand is right like. I think that even when you look at all of the different industries that sell athleisure we're like often they're the same frickin product, made at the same manufacturer with like the same tones of colors. Like the differentiated differentiator, there will either be price, will it will be quality, but if the price and the quality you know unit economics are similar because of the product, the differentiator is brand and community, and so I think that, like I obviously believe very much so in that.
Speaker 2:But I also think that, like the direct to consumer bubble has kind of popped right. There was this way, the direct to consumer companies that were getting so overly funded. I think caspers are really good example where you're seeing them get really funded and it's basically a pay to play, right, so on Facebook you can put money into it, you get customers out of it, and so we're kind of having that bubble pops because pop, because cost of acquisition was so heightened that it's like, oh, what are the ways that you can actually sustain and grow as a business when you don't want to be stuck in that pay to play machine, organic brand fandom, right, and so I think that's it. For me, like that kind of emotional connection is so important because, like, it's not that hard to start a business anymore.
Speaker 7:And so I would like to say thank you so much for the insight and audio as, like a fellow founder, I think it's fascinating because just constantly, like in the investment capacity, getting asked like, well, what's your differentiator? And most times we're speaking to entrepreneurs who are not Gen Z or millennial and so like organic brand fandom and just like brand sometimes doesn't seem like enough. But I do feel like just in this recent wave we're really seeing the power of like brand and community, which is exciting.
Speaker 2:So thanks so much for sharing that's of course, and I, my advice would be like I've you know, we took a year and a half to raise our pre seed round and like, yeah, saying brand, organic brands, like to many people who like don't come from a brand world and more of a numbers world, especially on the investment side, that means nothing but like oh, so you're going to change your colors right, the way you have to make the argument is like around cost of acquisition and like month over month growth, which is like hey, having organic brand will give me a very low cost of acquisition, which means you have a bigger bang for your buck and that we can grow and scale in an organic way. So here are the examples in which cost of acquisition lowering helps with business growth. When you contextualize it in cost of acquisition, or like ROAS or like these number things around scalability, that's where investors will get it. But you kind of need to like use that language to make the argument so helpful.
Speaker 7:Thanks so much, Nadia.
Speaker 3:Is there anything else that you want to share with this group of women?
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, I mean, yeah, I so appreciate the time and the space. Like obviously I think that I'm kind of like preaching to the choir here around, like we're probably all on the same page that period stigma needs to be like eradicated and I think that you know I love working in the space I'm almost 10 years in and I think that, like, what I always encourage people to do is like recognize periods stigma around your own world right, like easy things you can do as a business owner, like make sure all the offices stock like free period products, like be more flexible about sick time or PTO around like period pain or just discussions around it. And I think that just being open to those conversations and obviously I hope you try August, whether that be getting it from us online or directly in store. So, yeah, excited to excited to have you try and would love any feedback.